An Interview with Joanne Popińska, director of The Choice
By ACP Board Member Abby Minor
“I think I can do something different—something nobody else can do”
I recently had the honor of talking with Joanne Popińska, a film director and current ACP Grant Partner whose newest project, The Choice, had its world premiere at the International Documentary Film Festival Amsterdam this past November. Popińska’s project blends techniques from traditional documentary storytelling, personal conversation, and animation, harnessing the power of Virtual Reality to bring special intimacy to abortion storytelling and listening. Now that The Choice is having its North American premiere at the prestigious South by Southwest Festival (SXSW) in Austin, TX in March, I wanted to share excerpts from our conversation, which challenged me to think about technology and abortion storytelling in new and productive ways.
Abby Minor: I’m a little bit of a Luddite and am sometimes suspicious of the idea that new digital and media technologies are always improvements. Why Virtual Reality for your project? Why is this an important piece?
Joanne Popińska: Lots of people ask, could we just make the flat documentary; isn’t the story very compelling on its own? But what we started to learn—when the viewer is immersed in this virtual space, sitting across from another person, talking to her and actually selecting the questions, seeing their hands typing questions—this has a very strong psychological effect on our audience. Unlike with traditional documentaries, they don’t feel like, oh, I just watched a documentary—they feel like, this conversation, this interaction just happened to me. We know psychologically that watching a documentary movie can make you more informed, but not necessarily affect your behavior. But talking to someone, which VR simulates, can change your attitude, and your behavior.
AM: Right, so you have deeply considered the rhetorical effects of Virtual Reality and how that works in this film, and it’s very much informed by your own background in psychology and sociology.
We want activists to know that VR is not scary
JP: Yes, I went about making this film in part as a sociologist, understanding the power of one-on-one conversation. When you put just two people in the room and let them talk, then things happen. That’s the whole idea behind The Choice. Of course as a filmmaker I want this to be experienced as art, but I also want to get out the message to activists that VR is a powerful tool. We want activists to know that VR is not scary, and it’s not just for geeks and gamers! It’s a really valuable tool for the abortion rights movement. We have gotten really strong reactions from people, anti-abortion people who have had big changes of mind and heart.
AM: Another rhetorical choice you made is to highlight the story of Kristen, a Texan who had a very wanted pregnancy and later term abortion experience. Sometimes in the abortion rights movement, we caution against highlighting more dramatic stories like this one, and we talk about how important it is to represent stories that are a little more common and uneventful. Why did you choose this particular story?
JP: My background in sociology also influenced the story I chose to highlight. At first I started recording interviews in Canada, because I felt like I didn’t have to be afraid—versus whenever I visit Poland, even with my progressive friends I am always careful. Being in Canada allowed me to start and to very quickly find people who were willing to tell their stories. And then I started listening to the stories and I realized—they will not convince my audience. My target audience are people who are in the middle, not sure what they think and who they should support. My other audience is anti-choice people—if I tell the story of a young woman who wanted to finish college, they are going to see her as “selfish.” So those stories are not going to be very effective for that audience.
As a sociologist, I started analyzing—what does the debate look like? What are the questions people are asking? What are the stereotypes? So for example, one of the stereotypes I identified is that abortion is anti-family. So how do you answer to that? I wanted to answer that as a filmmaker—so I knew I had to highlight the story of someone who was really wanting to start a family.
I intentionally did not record an interview with an activist—it’s natural when you talk about something over and over you sound prepared. But for non-believers, it starts to sound a little bit fake. I wanted people to have the experience of talking to a friend who’s telling you her personal story, maybe telling it for the first time.
AM: And ultimately you chose to tell a story of someone in the U.S.—
JP: Yes, in the U.S., as in Canada, the stories we were hearing involved this element of personal choice, but also all the obstacles that come from the fact of living in the U.S. So the story we chose for the first chapter is a U.S. story and a second trimester abortion story. I was showing it to an activist in Poland a couple months ago, and she was like, “oh, but everybody agrees on late term abortion.” But actually it’s not that easy. Kristen, in Texas and at that time, had the right to an abortion, but she faced all sorts of obstacles. She was lied to by her doctors—in Texas they had started to introduce a bill that would allow doctors to conceal information about fetal anomalies. And because the doctors had delayed and delayed, her life was in danger—and all the months of hormones and attachment and—she was really devastated by that experience.
AM: I’m thinking about how, in the abortion activism community we hear a lot about how important abortion storytelling is, as though telling abortion stories automatically changes the minds of people who are anti-abortion. But we don’t really talk about this idea that, actually not all stories are going to be effective, or that different stories are effective for different audiences. If the goal is for people who have abortions to normalize our own experiences, then yes telling our stories has value. But if the goal is changing minds and hearts of a specific audience, then we do need to be strategic.
JP: I have had the opportunity to see that a lot of anti-choice people are human, they have hearts. So I have thought a lot about, how do I convince these humans? Or maybe not convince, but give them a chance to see the other side. For example, I’m a vegan. I realized as a teenager when I was berating people about not being vegan—that I wasn’t going to get anywhere with that. My partner, he switched to being vegan because the food I cooked for him is tasty! I stopped making him feel guilty about killing animals, and instead I showed him a completely different aspect of being vegan. The analogy with abortion is—my quest is to show people who are anti-abortion or not sure about abortion that pro-choice people and people who have abortions are also people, they have feelings, and some very deep thoughts. And with Virtual Reality, I think I can do something different—something nobody else can do. As a sociologist, a psychologist, and a virtual reality artist—I think I can give people a chance to deeply experience the other side.
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To support or sponsor this project, visit www.thechoice-vr.com/support
If you have a VR headset (Oculus Quest), keep your eyes open for festival screenings, as currently The Choice is having its festival circuit. The nearest one is SXSW, and there will be an option for in-person and online participation. Find more information at the SXSW 2022 schedule.
Also, Joanne and her team are currently preparing for an impact campaign. They plan to visit various states and cities, meet with local activist communities, and talk about how the project can be used for activists’ every-day work. You can contact the team if you want to invite them for such meeting: info@infiniteframemedia.com
Journalists who want to view The Choice can request a loaner headset through the mail; get in touch with the team at info@infiniteframemedia.com or press@infiniteframemedia.com